Here, a serious series in two images.
The discussion begins with the
concept of deviantART itself. This is what originally drew me to the site, these words from dA Policy:
deviantART is an expansive, worldwide community of artists of every age, and every nationality who create works spanning every medium, every subject and every level of talent and skill.
Originally, I joined dA to share my poetry ... and still do through my other account. Though I soon found my life merging with some of the outstanding Art I was uncovering here and the path of self-exploration my life was taking me on began to include expression through Artistic Nude Photography. Of late I've found more and more commentary to be unworthy of this venue.
Now, in addition to that I have heard from more than a few of my dear dA friends that commentary on their posted Artistic Nudes almost always includes unnecessary content, in particular, sexist comments.
While I am the first to say that the artist and model should Never take personally any remarks about their work - because the viewer's interpretation is completely outside their control, let's consider 'context'.
I return to the fact that this 'venue' is appropriate for Art ... and Artistic interpretation and commentary of that Art. The venue must be the 'context'!
This is Not MySpace; This is Not a dating site; PERIOD - end of point!
So let's add some other elements to the discussion:
What defines Art as Art?
-according to Princeton University:
the products of human creativity
-according to the American Heritage Dictionary:
any of various creative forms of expression
-according to the Online Etymology Dictionary:
Greek: arti "just" & artios "complete"// Armenian: arnam "make"// German: art "manner, mode"
Also: Fine arts: "those which appeal to the mind and the imagination" first recorded 1767
What does Critique really mean?
-according to the American Heritage Dictionary:
A critical review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature.
-according to the Online Etymology Dictionary:
Origin: 1575–85 - from: Latin: criticus//Greek: kritikós skilled in judging (adj.). <u.critic (n.), equiv. to Greek:
krt(és) judge, umpire &
(kr(nein) to separate, decide
What are dA's policies on commentary?
specifically it reads:
Prohibited commentary is typically considered to be inherently disrespectful, aggressive, or otherwise abusive.
We must insist that you refrain from comments which are racist, bigoted, or which otherwise offensively target a philosophy or religion. In addition we ask that our members avoid making offensive remarks based on gender or sexual preference and that you do not make any remark, comment or critique which is intended to be a direct insult to an individual, group, or genre of artwork. Hate propaganda is met with zero tolerance. Comments which are overly aggressive, personally insulting or needlessly abusive are also prohibited.
although i prefer the clarity included in the section relating to Forums, and certainly believe it applies to all commentary as well. It reads:
We encourage interactivity and we allow comments to be either positive or negative in nature providing that they remain constructive and promote a worthwhile dialogue. We insist that forum threads adhere to the same standard set forth for deviation, scrapbook, and writing submissions in terms of what is considered acceptable subject matter (i.e. no racist threads, no sexual discussions, etc).
It is important to remember to be as clear in your intent as possible while communicating on the internet. Text communications do not afford a clear representation of sarcasm. Please use common sense when posting to avoid confusion.
What is 'inappropriate commentary'?
Well ... that really is the question here! I am not suggesting that viewers should not comment unless they have an indepth interpretation or critique to share ... there are plenty of times when time constraints or other matters allow for little more than telling the artist that I've enjoyed or appreciated their work. However I do find it absolutely unnecessary to share a comment about the model's or the image's sexuality, I do not need to know that someone is turned on by an image - refer to context. If I was interested in that sort of commentary I would certainly have chosen a different venue for posting my work!!!
I find any such remarks sexist and very inappropriate.
So I am very interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject.
What is 'sexist'?
-according to Dictionary.com:
–adjective 1. pertaining to, involving, or fostering sexism: a sexist remark; sexist advertising.
–noun 2. a person with sexist attitudes or behavior.
What does 'Concept' mean?
-according to Roget's Thesaurus:
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: idea
Synonyms: abstraction, apprehension, approach, big idea, brain wave, brainchild, conceit, conception, conceptualization, consideration, hypothesis, image, impression, intellection, notion, perception, slant, supposition, theory, thought, twist, view, wienie, wrinkle
Antonyms: concrete, percept, sensation
**I find the Antonyms poignant!!**
-according to Online Etymology Dictionary:
1556, from Latin: conceptum "draft, abstract,"
-according to the American Heritage Dictionary:
a directly conceived or intuited object of thought.
What is 'Context'?
-according to Roget's Thesaurus:
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: circumstances
Synonyms: ambience, background, conditions, connection, framework, lexicon, relation, situation, substance, text, vocabulary
-according to American Heritage Dictionary:
The circumstances in which an event occurs; a setting.
-according to Online Etymology Dictionary:
Middle English from Latin contextus (from past participle of contexere), to join together : com-, com- + texere, to weave
Lastly
What is the role of 'Nude' in Art?
-according to the Metropolitan Museum of Art (online):
The nude is classic, timeless, elemental, primal, and universal. Because we are all creatures of our own nakedness, it is the subject of ultimate empathy. And yet in the hands of an artist, that fleeting, imperfect, and fragile package that carries all of our souls gains a noble immortality and perfection that transcends its mere physicality.
<div align="center">
And some wonderful Quotes for contemplation:
Beauty is form contemplated without desire. (Eoin de Leastar)
There is no art without contemplation. (Robert Henri)
Realism and Naturalism rely mostly on the eye of the flesh. Abstract, conceptual and surrealistic art rely mostly on the eye of the mind. Great works of art rely on the eye of contemplation, the eye of the spirit. (Alex Grey)
Fill your paper with the breathings of your heart. (William Wordsworth)
Creativity is dynamic, it asserts life, frees the human spirit, conquers mental lassitude and illness, and makes real the outrageous potential of the universal imagination. (Robert Genn)
Life is raw material. We are artisans. We can sculpt our existence into something beautiful, or debase it into ugliness. It's in our hands. (Cathy Better)
A work of art is the unique result of a unique temperament. (Oscar Wilde)
Obstacles cannot crush me. Every obstacle yields to stern resolve. He who is fixed to a star does not change his mind. (Leonardo da Vinci)
A man paints with his brains and not with his hands. (Michelangelo)
Images also help me find and realise ideas. I look at hundreds of very different, contrasting images and I pinch details from them, rather like people who eat from other people’s plates. (Francis Bacon)
The pain passes, the beauty remains. (Pierre-Auguste Renoir)
I do not literally paint that table, but the emotion it produces upon me. (Henri Matisse)
The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. (Pablo Picasso)
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead.. his eyes are closed.
(Albert Einstein)
True art takes note not merely of form but also of what lies behind. (Mahatma Gandhi)
Art is contemplation. It is the pleasure of the mind which searches into nature and which there divines the spirit of which Nature herself is animated. (Auguste Rodin)</div>
=
Follow us on Twitter
Become a fan on Facebook
Devious Comments
Photography is, at its core, a vouyeuristic activity. The photographer either has to work within that limitation or react against it.
It is especially difficult to reconsile photography's limitations when one deals with nudes. The fact is, unless the photo is heavily manipulated, broken down, built back up, etc, the photo will always show a real nude person. And, since people automatically attach the nude form to human sexuality (admit it already!), you can't just ask them not to see the sexual aspect and only look at the photo from the context that you are supposedly working with.
So how do you desexualize the nude? You breakdown the identity of the figure, abstract it.
But, I'm sorry, if you work with identified models, you are always going to run into this problem. Some commentators will be kinder than others, but don't doubt what they're really thinking.
At the end of the day, you the artist need to have control over your medium and have the ability to direct the viewer's assessment of your imagery.
Or, you could just block comments.
However, I'll have to disagree. Your points seem just 'black or white' - And, since people automatically attach the nude form to human sexuality (admit it already!), No, I'm afraid that is one point of view, and it is not mine, nor that of Millions of others.
you can't just ask them not to see the sexual aspect and only look at the photo from the context that you are supposedly working with. Perhaps a read of the entire article would prevent such an off-target conclusion, I took time to explain what 'context' was being referred to. I also never brought up the question of desexualizing the nude.
I had hoped that this final statement: At the end of the day, you the artist need to have control over your medium and have the ability to direct the viewer's assessment of your imagery.
indicated that I would find this control in your gallery, I was disappointed to find extensively detailed descriptions of each piece asking the viewer to look at it from the context you're working with.
With all respect, mollygrue, that's an oversimplification. There are several classes of people that do not make this automatic association: naturists, medical professionals, primitive tribespeople whose normal dress is nudity or near-nudity, and many, if not most, artists. I believe that art students are taught with their first life-drawing class to disassociate nudity from sexuality (unless they're doing an erotic piece).
And just because "everybody does it," it's still not necessarily right.
--
Imagination + discipline = creativity
I probably should have made my statement clearer. I was addressing the reason that inappropriate comments appear on pages displaying nudes, and why it's particularly difficult with photography. I believe that this happens, not only because the person leaving the comment lacks respect, but because they are genuinely reacting to a sexual figure.
If this is something that happens again and again, perhaps it is the image itself that is causing confusion and the content that you're trying to push just isn't coming through.
Really, I'm not writing my arguments to be offensive. I'm just trying to get people to think outside of the box. To think back to the basics a little more.
As for my gallery, well, I'm still a student, and quite a bit of that work comes from periods when I was struggling with sexuality overshadowing my intended content myself. I can own up to it now, but when I first made a lot of those images, I didn't address the sexual nature of the body at all and my professors kept trying to call me on it and, of course, I wouldn't listen. What did they know?
Then, after distancing myself from the work for a while, I discovered they were right. That I wasn't controlling the content and that sexuality was distracting me from my goal, so I tried to eliminate all traces of sexuality. And that didn't really work either.
Anyway, I'm a work in progress. But, I try to talk through these issues just so that I can get a better perspective on them.
But, back to our main point of contention. If the purpose of writing this article was really just to point out that some people lack respect when responding to nudes and that they shouldn't do that, I say don't let it bother you so much. Some people are just assholes. And that's okay. Let them be. But, if the comments really really bother you (and you know that for every one person that leaves a comment like that, ten more are thinking it), then maybe you need to consider how to create imagery that doesn't provoke that response. What do you really want to say, and is the nude really important to say it?
The main point really is that DeviantART is a venue for ART. While any one individual may not see the inherent (and historically pervasive) value of the nude in art (refer to the question "what is the role of the nude in art?") and may only be able to see nude or nakedness as being sexual that gives them no right to makes comments such as: "wow, that just made me cu...." or "hey baby, wanna ..." or "i just wanna ... you" - I'm quite sure you get the point ... those are the types of comments to which i am referring. Those are the types of comments which have other 'venues'. For instance, if my art was on exhibit at a gallery and a person made these same remarks to me or the curator they would be forcibly removed. I'm hoping that artists of all genres would support maintaining the integrity this site was built upon.
It is Not a question of it bothering me personally.
It can be difficult to say the least to open one's mind and embrace the idea that nude does not equal sexual ... even more difficult when you've grown up in North America ... but at the end of the day, it's not so much an 'idea' but in reality, a fact. Sexuality occurs in the mind, we are not All sexual - but we are all naked ... we arrive & leave that way!
I do love that you consider yourself a 'work in progress' ... and 'still a student' ... I think we All should be this way, that it is the point to life ... to never stop learning and growing!
Pleasure debating the issue with you ... Thanks so much for your input
I think that those comments, as obscene as they are, point to something that maybe we as students of Art don't care to see though. People do sexualize nudity in sometimes outrageous ways. But why is that? Is it because, as you pointed out, the imagery we've been inundated with in Western culture constantly makes reference to the body as a vehicle for sex and sexual thoughts? Or is it something more primal? Perhaps a little of both? Is that really a bad thing?
Either way, it's one thing to address these to a specific elite audience, and quite another to give it to the world at large and hope that they approach it with the same amount of respect and perspective. Maybe it's just that the nature of sexuality has to be redefined. But I think that people who work with nudes still need to deal with that underlying issue head on or it will always be misunderstood.
The pleasure's mine ^_^.
those reflecting on sharing ideas in an artistic community, and those are are simply a waste of time.
who cares if nudity is an extension of sexuality?
what matters is the context, and in context of this site, even a comment like "i love the model's physique" is probably inappropriate.
because it doesn't reflect the reason for either posting it or discussing it...
--
Previous Page123 Next Page