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Editorials This Week

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`Rahll:iconRahll: reports, November 21
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In this article I'll talk about establishing a process of working on art that will help you turn out much better work without as much struggling or confusion.

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`johnpaulthornton:iconjohnpaulthornton: reports, November 21
The ancient secret of creating "mood" in art.

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*ProjectComment:iconProjectComment: reports, November 22
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This news article includes things you can take part of (Groups, Features, Projects and More!), FAQs and Tuts, Guides and Resources. Each category is limited to only five things so that you have time to visit each individually.

Have something to suggest? Note us! :D
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=noticias:iconnoticias: reports, 2d 5h ago
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~shadowlight-oak:iconshadowlight-oak: reports, November 21
For every person who dies from suicide 20 more attempt but survive
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~Azureluck:iconAzureluck: reports, 12h 39m ago
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*llama-doll:iconllama-doll: reports, 12h 36m ago
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Amazing Pictures, Pollution in China

=zesly:iconzesly: reports, 11h 36m ago
40 very impressive picture.

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Editorials


deviantART and Tracing - A Ramble - Part Q

~MaruHatesGravity:iconMaruHatesGravity: reports, July 15, 2008
About a month ago I wrote this editorial about tracing on deviantART and the staff's new definition of what is "valid fan art". Well, since then I've found some older news articles and new additions to the FAQ and all sorts of interesting new things to add. So, I'd like to ramble some more!

I suppose I'll start off by mentioning the recent addition (or maybe I've just been overlooking it for a long time) of a fan art "vector" category. Now, anyone who knows anything about vector art is going to stop me here and say, "Hey dumbhead, vector art is a perfectly valid form of art!"

Guess what? It sure is. =P So don't think I'm ragging on real actual vector art, here. This is about vector traces.

Now, the reason I'm pointing this out is that back in the day, there were not many different categories for fan art. It was, if I remember correctly, pretty much just digital or traditional. It seems now that the list of categories for fan art is rather jumbled. Here's a little activity for you: if your browser allows tabs, open deviantART's submission page (handy link provided for your convenience!) in a new tab. If your browser does not allow tabs, smack yourself on the wrist and go download a browser that doesn't suck, then come back and open the submission page in a new tab. Check out the submission categories under "fan art."

Look at what a big jumble this is. Instead of going Digital or Traditional first, and then branching off neatly from there, we have this crazy grocery list: Anthro, Cartoons/Comics, Digital Art, Fan Fiction, Manga/Anime, Skins, Traditional Art, Vector, Wallpaper.

Shouldn't Vector at least be under Digital Art? Furthermore, some of these categories aren't even necessary- either that, or according to the addition of things like Vector, we don't have nearly enough fan art categories. :o Where is the category for fan art sculpture? How about fan metalworking or fan 3D modeling? I don't see a category for those...

Where the heck am I going with this? Okay, so it's somewhat of a flimsy accusation, I'll admit- but doesn't it seem like this was maybe just a random addition to shut people up? I remember several times making reports to the admins of traced artwork they wouldn't remove and saying, "if this is valid fan art, why isn't it being moved to the fan art category?" And I'm sure I'm not the only one that argued that. Non-traced vector art could have fit in under fan art > digital art > drawings.

Make what you want of it. I'm not trying to be a crazy conspiracy theorist here (:paranoid:) and I'm not trying to paint the staff as being entirely composed of evil trace-facilitating curly-moustache-wearing villains or something, but I find it pretty weird, and tracing issues aside I think the fan art submissions categories could use a loooooooooot of cleanup.

Now that I've got that strange little happening out of the way, let me bring you to this article by $realitysquared.

I would like to direct your attention to the last few paragraphs, regarding fan art.

"One area which receives more complaints of this behavior is the various Fan Art galleries. Now the staff views the fan art galleries in a slightly different manner from the other galleries on deviantART.

For one, the very nature of a fan art gallery indicates that you will not find very much originality; all submissions will be directly based upon someone else’s artwork and concepts. One is also more likely to find a younger, less experienced artist submitting to these types of galleries.

For these reasons the various fan art galleries are granted far more leniency when it comes to the subject of direct copying or tracing. The works which will receive the most leniency are those that copy from official sources of popular shows and series while those which copy from original artist creations will be afforded less leniency.

Essentially this means that if someone copies or traces a screenshot from their favorite cartoon the staff will be more forgiving and if someone has copied or traced your original artwork or photograph they will be less forgiving; especially if you are the one to file the official complaint.

Please take note of this clarification and adjust your reporting habits accordingly."


Excuse me while I tear this apart. :roll:

"For one, the very nature of a fan art gallery indicates that you will not find very much originality; all submissions will be directly based upon someone else’s artwork and concepts."

Perhaps, yes, but trust me on this one- I have seen a lot of very creative fan art. Like I said in my last article, the joy of fan art is seeing your favorite characters in new and interesting situations, styles, etc. etc. etc.... and when people post something that's nothing more than a copy of an official art or a screenshot, it's boring.


"One is also more likely to find a younger, less experienced artist submitting to these types of galleries."

I'll admit it- I pretty much got started drawing fan art. When I was eleven, I discovered The Grand Adventures, a Legend of Zelda fansite, and its collection of fan art. I loved it. I was hooked. I spent hours and hours looking at Zelda fan art. At one point I was an administrator at the Zelda Legends Fan Art Gallery. I remember, once or twice, copying or tracing some official art, but I also remember it being terribly boring and not as fun as trying to draw things myself. Thankfully, the people at the galleries I visited were very encouraging and I continued to do my own "original fan art" (for lack of a better phrase).

I also remember finding the most gorgeous little gallery in Kasuto.net's fan art section. I thought it was brilliant. I printed out some of the pictures and I think one or two of them are still stuck to the bulletin board on my wall- yep, looking behind me, they are. But when I was thirteen, I found that they were only copies, eyeballed from the (beautifully drawn!) Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time manga by Akira Himekawa. I was totally disenchanted. The gallery lost its magic.

I went back to look at that gallery today, and it appears said "artist" has submitted some more in the past few years that looks like it might actually be original art, but now I can't be sure.

The works which will receive the most leniency are those that copy from official sources of popular shows and series while those which copy from original artist creations will be afforded less leniency.

Essentially this means that if someone copies or traces a screenshot from their favorite cartoon the staff will be more forgiving and if someone has copied or traced your original artwork or photograph they will be less forgiving; especially if you are the one to file the official complaint.


What Just, what? There is so much wrong here.

So it is now okay to trace over artwork and claim it as your own as long as the source is "official" and popular. And artwork that is popular on a mass scale is no longer "original"? Once you're famous, all originality is lost and you become a valid stock resouce? Wow! Now I really don't want to be famous.

Oh, and now the original artist has to know about it and complain? Sometimes we can't notify the original artist. Sometimes we don't know who they are. Sometimes they don't even speak English.

An example of this is something I reported a few weeks ago. Someone was making pixel "doll bases" from an anime artwork that they found on Photobucket. There was a signature on the artwork, but unfortunately I could not track down the original artist. I did, however, have the art as an example, and included it in my report.

The administration would not remove it, even though it was

a. lacking proof that the pixel "artist" had permission to use said drawing for their "doll base" (after I confronted them, the deviant added "credit to the original artist! :slow:" to the description. Better than nothing, some would say, but it basically is nothing.)

b. obviously somebody's traced-over original art (I included an animated .GIF layover)

c. not submitted to the fan art section

d. admitted by the "artist" that they did not draw the art they traced over

There wasn't even any room for their flimsy "it's valid fan art!" excuse here and the administration completely ignored this. :roll: Even though it was an obvious case of art theft.

Furthermore, I tried to reason with the thief in question and her excuse was this (atrocious typing left intact):

"as i say in half my comments i find all the pictures that i make my bases out of off of PHOTOBUCKET

i ask for credit only in makein the base NOT the picture

and really im not the only "doll base" maker that does this im not even one of the big doll base makers y dont people start talking to them about it

This is a hobbie for me not a carrer and when a hobbie becomes more of a pain in the butt then fun i stop so if i need to i will remove ALL my bases so no one can have fun makein dolls out of them

thank you and go talk to some of the bigger doll base makers"


I'll let that jumbled abomination of the English language speak for itself, for the most part. But I must ask, where is the justice for the original artist, who will probably never be notified? Their art is now being re-distributed as a pixel doll base, when they have never given permission or even been told about it.

And now we come to the final and possibly most drama-filled recent incident regarding tracing.

Here is a link to =budgie's journal about this litle dramafest.

The story goes like this: deviantART holds a contest to create a poster to represent them at the AX convention. A winner is chosen and it's later discovered that their artwork was a vector trace. Shit hits the fan, artist gets flames left and right, deviantART yoinks the "THIS IS OUR WINNER!" article, and comes back later with an alternate winner chosen due to "extenuating circumstances." You'll notice many of the comments on that article and the new winner's deviation are things like, "This entry totally deserves it!"

I think this is evidence enough that a lot of the community is very opposed to tracing. I also read somewhere that if AX had found out about the traced artwork, dA could have been kicked from the con, though I'm not entirely sure if that's true. But, if a method is considered cheating when you use it in a drawing contest- should we really be allowing it at all?

I am very glad that deviantART, for once, made the right decision, but why only in this one instance?

I urge you to simply stand back and look at this from a distance now- I do not encourage any more flames. Instead, please continue to support the winner, and original art in general. If I were popular enough to organize some kind of big movement against tracing, I would, but I don't have that kind of fan-following... =P

So, that's my rather sloppy addition to an already rather sloppy ramble.

I would like to do a feature sometime. A fan art feature, with the most creative fan art I can possibly find. I'd need help, though.

What do you think?

Devious Comments

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:iconmikari:
I think you're doing a great thing here. I'm no good at this, so I hope my comment makes at least a little sense xD;
I'm glad that there's someone who's willing to put effort in fighting this tracing issue.

Tracing helps with learning to draw -I used to trace, too- but it's just wrong to get thousands of views and favorites cos you literally copied an existing screenshot or w/e.

I'm pretty stunned about the Vector Fan Art option. Just.. what the hell.
I hate it when people try to justify things that are obviously wrong. D:<
dA is going downhill with this. Blah.

Anyways, I'm drifting off. >_>;

Your news posts make me smile. Cos I KNOW you're right.
You have my support. :'D

...

I'm so bad at this.

--
This signature makes you waste your time :3 have a nice day
:iconmaruhatesgravity:
It's funny, so far I've always gotten 1 rejection on these articles and yet nobody ever stands up to show themselves and say anything against me. :o Cowards! Throw your opinion at me so I can strike it down...!

*shotdead* Anyway...

I can sort of, sort of understand using tracing to learn to draw and I guess it works for some people. I'm still iffy on that, though, as I have tried both tracing and life drawing, and it's life drawing that made me feel like I was actually learning instead of just doing a connect-the-dots in my preschool workbook...

I honestly don't know. Maybe I should just shut up because I don't know what I'm talking about, but I really think there are better options than tracing to learn and deviantART should be encouraging those, rather than saying "hay guys it's okay! :highfive:"

And yeah, a lot of the tracers that really aggravate me are the ones that are obviously just doing it for attention, and will never progress to doing their own art. A certain very popular (and at the same time very hated) vector "artist" here on dA (I'm sure many of us can guess who :roll:) has said, herself, that she has no interest in making art and just likes the attention.

It's reeeeeeally not something anyone should get so much attention and praise for. I am extremely reluctant to suggest that dA allow it at all but if they feel they must, I think it belongs in Scraps only.

Anyway, continued ranting over, thanks so much for your support~~ it's okay, you made plenty of sense and I'm glad you liked the article. :D

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:iconmaruhatesgravity:
Crazy awesome addition:

Man, I wish I could edit my news article and include a link to this old post on the forum. Don't necropost, guys, it's from 2005.

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Once you start, you can't stop. Just say NO to repeating decimals.
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:iconcaterfree10:
Very, very true, Maru-san. I swear dA is going down the stupid lane with the whole tracing issue. The fact that a tracing may be a fanart should have NOTHING to do with the fact that it is TRACING, ie NOT ORIGINAL. And besides, saying that a fanart isn't original is stupid because I know of at least two pieces that have gotten DDs that were fanart (probably more, but I don't check the DDs everyday). If it wasn't original, they'd never make DDs! TRACING AND COPYING IS BAD. If you're gonna do it, put it in your scraps so the rest of us don't have to see 'em! :<

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:iconmaruhatesgravity:
I am waiting for the day that they DD a trace, and incite another huge shitstorm. =P

I'm really hoping that the contest incident will make them re-think their policies...

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Once you start, you can't stop. Just say NO to repeating decimals.
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:iconmikari:
Hit 'em with a frying pan! D:<

Well, it's life drawing that helped the most, though. XD;
But I used to trace some Zelda artwork >_> Cos I wanted to be able to draw like that.
Butyeah, tracing is not the answer in the end. Good thing I didn't keep it up.

Anyways,

There are better options than tracing, I agree.
And just simply approving of tracing like that is pretty stupid.

Them attention whores need to find a better way to get the attention they need; cos like this, they're just giving fan art a bad name.

...I probably contradicted myself about 17 times.
I still find it a little difficult to explain myself in English, since Dutch is my 1st <_<

And you're welcome. 8D

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This signature makes you waste your time :3 have a nice day
:iconshadow-otm:
Among many issues with this DA needs to address is what happens if a trace is being sold as a print and they have knowledge of it. If they do not delete such a thing, regardless of legalize in their TOU they will be liable for damages since they chose to not remove a piece that was, to their knowledge, breaking copyright law and not only allowing someone else to make profit off it but making profit on each piece sold as well.

That said, I hope the vector thing in fanart wasn't to let people get away with tracing and definetly hope it isn't the one and only response to the tracing in the AX poster contest. Lolly did say they were going to look over issues concerning tracing after the contest.

Other than that... Anime Expo apparently has kicked people out for selling art that was simply "too similar" to things before. I know smaller cons have banned or had dealers arrested by police for selling pirated videos and other material. Conventions also don't make a lot of money, even big ones don't always break even, so they usually don't deal with shinanigans from people. I have no doubt that if DA had used the known trace for their poster it would have cause a scene at the con and AX would have considered removing DA from the con, though likely request removal of the traced poster first. I doubt AX would have wanted a stigma from letting a dealer showcase traced work.

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:iconmaruhatesgravity:
Trust me, you explain yourself better in English than a lot of people who speak English as a first language do. :giggle: I say this because I have been forced to correct classmates' papers so many times...

I remember your art from back in the day, where was it... ZeldaPower? And I don't remember any traces. :o But I loved your work and I still do. :] And I'm always glad to see someone stop tracing and start doing their own stuff. Seriously, the attention whores should just go back to MySpace where they belong! :shakefist:

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Once you start, you can't stop. Just say NO to repeating decimals.
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:iconmaruhatesgravity:
Yeah, I still really wonder what dA does about prints. :o

I really hope the new addition wasn't just to facilitate tracers- I'd like to believe that it isn't- but the time at which it popped up, and the way in which it was added, leads me to believe otherwise.

I do remember seeing your dialogue with $lolly and I really hope that they are looking into this and not just saying things (because they've been "planning on" the deviant groups/clubs thing for ages and we know how far that's gotten... =P).

I almost wish dA had gone to the con with the traced poster and gotten kicked out- I guess I'm a malicious little snot for saying that, but still, I think that would have made a bigger impact. And what we need with this issue is impact.

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