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The Complaints Tavern Newsletter: Issue 7

=cassiedj:iconcassiedj: reports, 2d 2h ago
As November wraps up, important things have, of course, been happening in the Tavern. Click to read more in this condensed issue of the Complaints Tavern Newsletter... or else.

To Wear Love On Her Arms Nov 13

~DisenchantedHeart:iconDisenchantedHeart: reports, November 12
TWLOHA (To Wear Love On Her Arms… a non-profit movement dedicated to presenting hope and finding help for those struggling with depression, addiction, self-injury and suicide. TWLOHA exists to encourage, inform, inspire, and also to invest directly into treatment and recovery..." Source of information [link] )
encouraging others to wear "love" on their arms as well
16 comments   Chat News  Last +fav: ~Jakaze

Double Birthday Party in #AnkartaKingdom!

`GaioumonBatou:iconGaioumonBatou: reports, November 12
Friday, November 13th, is `DeMaulwurfn's 20th birthday, and also ~StarlightAngel01's 21st birthday, so we're going to have a party of sorts in #AnkartaKingdom and everyone is invited! Bring your friends! Tell your friends to bring their friends!

Photographers Wanted

*photohunt:iconphotohunt: reports, November 2
All pictures you see in the article are taken in under 20 minutes for the *photohunt Game. Bored? Come by the #Photohunt Chat and join this addicting game. I DARE you to play just one round :evileye:

The Complaints Tavern Newsletter: Issue 6

=cassiedj:iconcassiedj: reports, October 31
Boo! We're back for our 6th issue! Ya hear? Six months! So click to read more about the Tavern's spooky and drama-filled October!

#CommunityRelations Halloween Party

^ArtisticAunJuli:iconArtisticAunJuli: reports, October 28
The Community Relations Team parties it up Halloween style in the #CommunityRelations Chat. Join us for prizes, fun, prizes, excitement and more prizes! (And more fun!)
26 comments   Chat News  Last +fav: =Kaz-D

Horror Photography Panel Chat Log [Oct 09]

^RockstarVanity:iconRockstarVanity: reports, October 18
On Saturday 17th October, there was a meeting of twisted minds in the #HorrorMacabrePhoto room on dAmn. A panel of horror photographers, made up of `ladytwiglet, =Ptollemy, =pullingcandy and @Xerces, encouraged the eager audience to poke around inside their braaaaaaaaaains and look for useful information amidst the squishy bits...

If you couldn't make it to the chat, the log is posted here, slightly streamlined to make it easier for you to get your teeth into. Om nom nom.
27 comments   Chat News  Last +fav: =Kaz-D

FanArt Classroom: Critique Nights

^ArtisticAunJuli:iconArtisticAunJuli: reports, October 13
Fan Art Department Weekly Chat Event: Critique Night! Every Friday in #FanArtClassroom. 8pm Eastern Time (New York)

undertheradar-club official member list - Oct 12

*undertheradar-club:iconundertheradar-club: reports, October 12
*undertheradar-club's official member list as of October 12.

Horror Photography Chat, Saturday 17th October...

^RockstarVanity:iconRockstarVanity: reports, October 10
...and you're ALL invited, whether you're an experienced horror photographer, and enthusiastic horror fan or simply interested in taking a little step over into the dark side.

There will be a panel of dA's favourite horror photographers and effects artists ready to answer your questions, the opportunity to share your own experiences and techniques...and I'll be posting thumbs of YOUR horror photos throughout the chat.

See you there!

Chat News This Week

The Complaints Tavern Newsletter: Issue 7

=cassiedj:iconcassiedj: reports, 2d 2h ago
As November wraps up, important things have, of course, been happening in the Tavern. Click to read more in this condensed issue of the Complaints Tavern Newsletter... or else.

Please see this wonderful gift from a friend

*seekingmysoul:iconseekingmysoul: reports, 6h 5m ago
I hope you will take this message from the heart and stop by and see this amazing artist :iconsevengraphs: *Please leave comments on his page or note him" This for all of DA and those that view it...the real meaning of Christmas...generosity Thank you Ivang :hug:

#DACritiques

*Kiyoshi-Kin:iconKiyoshi-Kin: reports, November 26
DACritiques is a new DAmn chatroom which allows it's critics to give their oppion on your art work. We hope you come and join us and enjoy our opinions. Or perhaps you are a critic yourself? [link]
No comments   Chat News  Last +fav: Nobody

epilepsy

=Art-and-Soul:iconArt-and-Soul: reports, 1d 23h ago
wishes everyone well
10 comments   Chat News  Last +fav: Nobody

Skulls Cleaned For You

~BlackDodgeDragon:iconBlackDodgeDragon: reports, 1d 21h ago
Skulls cleaned for you. I will take deer and large bird skulls, and will not take raptors. Paypal is accepted and I will do world-wide business. Thank you!
1 comment   Chat News  Last +fav: Nobody

Chat News


Tracing- Art or Not? Opinions...

~Amphy:iconAmphy: reports, October 20, 2008
So, I was wondering what most people's view on tracing is. Now, I have my own opinions about the subject, but for the purpose of this article I'm just going to post the facts and ask for you, the people's, opinions. I'm seriously looking for multiple points to the argument, different views, and maybe a bit of understanding from both sides so that I can better understand.

The facts:
DA's policy on art:
"Respect Your Fellow Artists

As a vibrant and growing art community deviantART welcomes all kinds of original artworks; but we MUST insist that the artwork which you submit be your own original works.

Your deviations must be your own original creations and you may only use resources which are considered legitimate and legal. Submissions which make use of works without proper permission or licensing by the original author will be removed as they come to the attention of the staff. This policy applies to all Deviation submissions, Scrapbook entries, and the preview images used for written submissions.

If you have reason to believe that a deviantART submission violates this policy you should use the official Report Violation link which is available on every submission page."

The US law, where DA is based out of, states that you must change *at least* 20% of the original composition in order for it not to be stealing, the art must not be copyrighted, or you must have full permission from and give credit to the original artist. There are such things as "intellectual rights" to characters and designs, which basically say that you have the right to this exact character and the concept which evolves around him/her. There is a fine line, however, in how you can change this and be ok, thus why so many companies have a hard time limiting fan comics etc. Composition, however, is a different topic.

So with that in mind, if you ran across a complete trace of someone else's work with any of these circumstances:
A) no credit given
B) no commentary allowed
C) no room for discussion, inquiry, suggestions, or even mention of tracing in the post
D) blockage for even mentioning the idea that it is a trace (which is allowed here on DA, I am told, so therefore they have nothing to fear)
E) taking credit or otherwise not implying that it was anyone else's idea in the least but their own
or
F) only doing it for pageviews and comments and not the general development of their art or style and or giving credit to the artist whom originally rendered it

... what would you do?
Please feel free to post your opinions on the topic. No flaming or bashing, only polite discussion here please. Do not comment hostily to anyone else's views, and try to keep your post polite. Remember, I have a view on it too, but i'm being civil. On that note, PLEASE feel free to share comments, discussions, and opinions on the topic! :)

Devious Comments

:iconimjustajoke:
The only tracing I find that is tolerable/ok is if you are tracing your own photo or art. Otherwise, just for practice it is okay. Tracing somebody else's work and posting it as your own is wrong though. I don't care what anybody says, it's just wrong.

And honestly, o_O I think it ought to be considered straight up art theft.

Stealing even just somebody else's composition makes it their art.

--
:innocent: Never Critisize Somebody untill you have walked a mile in their shoes, this way when you critisize them your a mile away (Nice running head start;)) And! You have their shoes! :innocent:
:iconchesney:
You know very well my opinions on the matter, but I might as well discuss it here, too.

In short, I think it's theft and deception, especially if it meets even one of the criteria you listed (not giving credit, not mentioning it's a trace, and so on).

I do not think of it as art and I do not, therefore, think it belongs on an art site. I am especially irritated by direct copies from anime screenshots, which are copyrighted. I don't see why it's allowed to upload traces of these as if you did something while it's not allowed to just upload the screencaps you traced from, you know?

This also leads me to wonder if it would be okay to trace from another artist's gallery with no credit. I've seen someone banned (albeit after much drama) for doing this and claiming the work as her own. But it had to reach a boiling point before this person was banned, which is sad, since proof that multiple images in her gallery were direct overlays, not "reference." In the end, I wonder if she was only banned for selling traced works as commissions... Sigh.

I also wonder if it would be allowed to trace a tracer's image. I mean, you would just be copying something they copied. How could they prove you traced theirs and not the same screenshot? And even if you did trace theirs, would it really matter? Is it even theirs? :faint:

I think all of these questions it raises is one of the many reasons it ought to just be purely and simply disallowed.

It is especially wrong and insulting to real artists who work hard on their art. And animators are artists, too, and someone somewhere drew an image that is making someone else very popular while getting no credit or mention or reference whatsoever.

On a final note that concerns me with this topic, the term "vector" has been so largely applied as a euphemism that many people believe "vector" is a synonym for "trace." That is an extreme insult against what vectors really are and gives a bad brand to real vector artists. I cannot imagine the stigma attached to the word when real vector artists are ignorantly accused of tracing because so many people think that is what it means. Calling a trace a vector is just trying to mislead people by dressing it up in a pretty skirt. -_-

If I go any further, I am going to lose my ability to remain civil. And, I think I've said all I need to say, so that's that!

--
Cats are for people who want peers, dogs are for people who want children.
My awesome avatar is made by ~jellies-in-ma-belly
:iconamphy:
Without credit, it is art theft. I agree... if it's not yours and it doesn't have credit, you are stealing someone else's attention, art, and time. =/ :eatshit:

--
Remember when they told you I didn't bite?

...yea, they were wrong...
:iconimjustajoke:
Composition is something many artists become famous for, like Degas. It's like stealing your baby to steal your composition o_o

--
:innocent: Never Critisize Somebody untill you have walked a mile in their shoes, this way when you critisize them your a mile away (Nice running head start;)) And! You have their shoes! :innocent:
:iconchesney:
Oh, and to see again why it humiliates even the community, I must link to an ED article a friend showed me. It's ED, so it will of course offend some people. :P but it's important, with proof.

[link]

--
Cats are for people who want peers, dogs are for people who want children.
My awesome avatar is made by ~jellies-in-ma-belly
:iconlemia:
I think if you trace line designs into a gigantic composition it could have an interesting effect in some regards. But if you're tracing an already completed work of art and now making any modifications to it...I don't really believe it's art.

Anyone who takes a finished composition traces it and calls it his or her own is wrong.
:iconjesskitt-08:
Personally I post on all my stuff to just not copy it. Period. If people really need something to trace/reference that bad, use a photograph or find someone who allows you to do such things with their art.

Tracing (no matter how much of it's changed or not) really, truly doesn't help a person accomplish anything other than "oh look, i can copy so and so's stuff". Why be a copycat? ^_^

--
Owner, Manager, and Founder of Kitt Creations.
"Bringing your imagination to life... in style!"
If you would like a custom-made fursuit just for you, let us know! You can email us at staff@kittcreations.com
:iconamphy:
:lmao: I LOVE Your point on tracing the tracers image... because if you can prove that you perceived it as their image given there was no credit, and they do not have it copyrighted, you are allowed... and they didn't credit so wouldn't that make them at fault?

And you know very well that I agree. I've seen that happen with artists, and they got banned. It's no different whether they're professional or not, you're gaining profits off of other's art. If I print the mona lisa and submit it to a gallery, I'm going to get laughed at profusely. It's a joke in the real art world, so i'm wondering if anyone can tell me why it's any different here? I mean, there are some logical arguments for it but there are some cases where it is just NOT..OK. I think that DA would not allow it for fear of legal trouble, but it's their site and their rules. What I think is odd is that people don't see it as a gain if they haven't sold it. NO? They're gaining attention, fame, recognition in the art world, connections, favorites, and people requesting and possibly offering to buy work. How do you defend that it has to be monetary when things like that LEAD to monetary gain? It's a fine line... but that's why I would propose that we draw it *way* back there in order that it doesn't cross the money issue...by just not allowing it unless you have permission, credit, or it is of your own pictures/work.

Yes, I agree it is a topic easy to get fired up to, but we must be open to opinions. Whether or not we accept them is another story, but that's our right and theirs to have our individual preferences and set of code. Also, I agree...I spend MANY hours on my work (regardless of whether more talented artists could do the same in 5 minutes, I spend days), and if I saw someone using my art I'd have no problem getting a lawyer on them and otherwise doing everything in my power to make them compensate/resolve the issue. It's not fair to real artists. It's not ok to steal from a store, it's not ok to cheat off tests, so why is it ok to steal art whether it be an idea or a physical, tangible object? And yes, there's nothing better than dressing up stealing in a pretty skirt, because without a credit or permission, that's what it is. =/

--
Remember when they told you I didn't bite?

...yea, they were wrong...
:iconchesney:
Also, recolors are not allowed, and isn't that what traces are? Just 100% recolors? (oftentimes using the EXACT SAME COLORS ON THE ORIGINAL?)

--
Cats are for people who want peers, dogs are for people who want children.
My awesome avatar is made by ~jellies-in-ma-belly
:iconamphy:
Hmm, that's actually a great point. I didn't know that..but yes they're a recolor with more. So they're discouraging recolors but encouraging it if you copy the entire work... ?

--
Remember when they told you I didn't bite?

...yea, they were wrong...
 

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