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Digital Art


Poser...3d or not 3d

*almeidap:iconalmeidap: reports, October 31, 2008
Any one who uses Poser on this site understands why I'm posting this. Every few months or so there seems to be a rash of "real" 3d modelers who feel it's their right to belittle those in this community who use Poser. If you don't know what Poser is, let me give you the quick and simple on it:

Poser and Daz Studio is a program that utilizes pre made models that a person can modify, fairly easily, using brought or made textures, morphs etc. Some Poser folks after their image is rendered will jazz it up in paintshop or choose to render in another app to make their image better.

Now what bothers most of the "real" 3d modlers is that a lot of Poser "artist" like to make images of nude or scantily clad big breasted woman (before you look I'm guilty of that) and these image tend to recieve a lot of views, vice the guy who's labored for weeks and recieves little view, comments and faves. The relative ease it takes someone in Poser to create one of these big busted scantily clad women (BBSCW) along with time and effort seems to frustrate the "real" 3d modlers because their works aren't getting the attention they feel they deserve and they have to share "their" gallery, 3D, with Poser people and the BBSCWs.

I've wondered why DA hasn't yet split the 3D realm up so the "real" modelers can post and create a seperate catergory within 3d that states "Poser/DazStudio". Yet I understand why they don't because there are ton's of Poser folks who make some works that can be truly called art and have passed on going the BBSCW route. There are also those who do the BBSCW stuff and you can see the effort into their work.

Does the BBSCW get more attention? Yes it does, sex sells. That's a part of life but in the end it's the quality of work that one produces that has many watching them.

Am I digressing? Yes and no. Is Poser 3D, what's your opinion? Should it be given it's own sub catergory? I know this will cause a lot of hate and discontent from both sides so let me address some of the hate now:

"Real" 3D modelers : I'm not saying that the lot of you are crying, whining and throwing rocks at the Poser folk, but the number of anti Poser post seems to have increased of late and a majority of it comes from those who believe they are the elite and shouldn't have to share their gallery with the mere Poser folk. A few bad apples are being quite loud and those are the ones I speak of.

Poser folk : Some of you may feel like I've over simplified Poser in my explanation of it. I apologize if you feel that way, I was just trying to make it easier to understand. For those of you who post the Big Busted types...before you think I'm calling you non talented hacks...remember I did state that I do those too.

Devious Comments

love 0 0 joy 2 2 wow 0 0 mad 0 0 sad 0 0 fear 0 0 neutral 0 0
:iconrobertogamez:
Clever question...but in this case as in life everybody as a personal opinion...no matter how many hours you spend doing a work....or how much detailed is the work...anyway the response in the watchers is something that I never understand...finally I allways do my work in order to express what I feel and if anyone like it is a PLUS...

--
"Our favs tell many things about us"
:iconzr1982:
I love 3D.:)

--
My husband account MLR19, please check the gallery
:iconelborja:
:)

This conversation comes us so often that I think I should write down some arguments for copy paste each time. That should spare me some time!

Is poser 3d? Sure. It uses mesh objects, textures, lights and a render engine.
Are poser users good modelers? I believe most of us are not.
Are you a better artist if you know how to model? No. You only are a better modeler.

All poser renders are not art, that is for sure; just like a render of a self-modeled sword is not art neither, even if you did a good job modeling it.

A mesh is simply a mesh until you use it to create art...
:icontechnofibre:
What about those who post small breasted ??? :D :rofl:
You explained it perfectly!
:iconwickedprince:
hm, I don't think there's a real reason for a division, what both camps are doing is producing Computer Generated Images, doesn't matter if you created the models yourself so you can look at them, or if you use somebody else's models to create more of a picture. I've found a few artists here who do both and I admire the heck out of them for having the skills to create models to fulfill their concepts of the final image they want to craft while I can only putter around with the models I have. And again the point comes up over who is more worthy of the views. I see this argument all over DA. The Poets and Writers get upset because nobody reads their stuff instead of just browsing pictures. Traditional Artists get upset because Photographers get lots of views. The Moralists hate it when the Fetishists get more views. And generally everyone gets upset with the people who get many more views than they do. In the end, DA is what it is, you just have to accept the vagaries and move on. Or to quote - Long Kiss Goodnight: "Life is Pain, Deal with it!"
:iconalltheoriginalnames:
Art is art, plain and simple. Poser art is somewhat similar to what a photographer does. Works with lighting, perspective composition and pov. Doesn't have to create the objects to compose it. Like photo manipulators as well, thats still art, even if they use someone elses photography (with permission ;) )

People will always argue what they consider art and what they don't. Painters, line art, colorists, sculpting, photography, manipulating, digital, poems, writing, etc. The list goes on and on. Mediums, styles, techniques and tools used have all been under fire by other artists. And digital art is no exception. One artists will point fingers at another that they are not true artists because of the programs used.

All art is created from something else. A pencil and paper, art and canvas, pigments and a cave wall.

And Poser/Daz or what ever programs you use falls under this. If it is 3d, then its 3d art, painting then its painting, it's pretty self explanatory.

Anyone who knows what Poser is knows that a lot of people who use it did not create the models they are working with, nor do they claim to. And as far as quality of work, nudity and such, you will see that in every medium and genre, plain and simple. I see it in all types of work, Poser/daz art is not exclusive to this type of work.

If someone attacks anothers work or medium used then it defeats what we all are trying to do on online art communities like this. Drama and rudeness infects, and art is called into question. Poser/daz is digital art, and is 3d, end of story. There is a lot of flack on people who use the program and its is quite silly. Pieces made by Poser have even made it into Expose by Ballistic Publishing and can be seen in high end sites like Cg Society.

This is just another thing for people to cause drama over, you will always have that. No matter what it is somebody will be calling another out, and getting people to back them up. It could be fueled by insecurities, hatred, boredom, amusement or a need for drama.

All artists should be coming together, not throwing stones at one another. Otherwise it is just immature and augmentative
:iconalmeidap:
very well said!

--
Livid Gurls Runtime City's Startlets : [link]
:iconchronophontes:
Thanks for posting this, Peter!

I use Poser with lots of premade models (as well as a few I've made myself). I also buy rather than build cameras to take photos with, and I buy premixed oil paints rather than grinding the pigments myself. (I even sometimes use pre-stretched canvas! :noes:)

--
Tom χφ
:iconalltheoriginalnames:
Lol you too? Omfg I thought I was the only one!! :omfg:
:icontimewyrm:
I think theres good poser and bad poser. Some of it is just lazy and I think thats primarily what gets it the bad reputation. I'm not talking about those who photoshop it afterwards, but I think you can tell when someone has put a lot of effort into a picture.

--
We cannot choose who we are, yet what are we but the sum of our choices?
 

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