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More Editorials

Loss of faith...

~DouglassDumas:iconDouglassDumas: reports, 1d 17h ago
DA policies and double standards.

Horror News.

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Horror News straight from the Harleyquinn and her Babies

Photo-manipulation: A Beginner's Hand Guide

=Emerald-Depths:iconEmerald-Depths: reports, 2d 16h ago
Don't know what photo-manipulation is, or do you want to try it but don't know where to begin?

This article contains frequently asked questions (with answers) involving the process.

Project Comment: Around dA Issue 6

#ProjectComment:iconProjectComment: reports, December 6
Project Comment is all about the community, so instead of just sticking to one thing and effectively closing all our walls and doors, we’re issuing a weekly Around dA, Project Comment style.

This news article includes things you can take part of (Groups, Features, Projects and More!), FAQs and Tuts, Guides and Resources. Each category is limited to only five things so that you have time to visit each individually.

Have something to suggest? Note us! :D

Alzheimer's Disease. A Plea at Christmas

`photonig:iconphotonig: reports, December 4
There was a play on; a half hour treat between grim news headlines. This particular play was a monologue about an elderly lady suffering the effects of Alzheimer's Disease......................

Inspiration credits is not a shame!

=lady-symphonia:iconlady-symphonia: reports, December 4
copy art inspiration

An Observation of deviantART

#ProjectComment:iconProjectComment: reports, November 29
Discussing page views, activity and popularity, ~ChaoticSkye explores the inner workings of the community on deviantART from her point of view.

Although this does not apply to everyone, we hope the article is a worthwhile read and that the majority perceive things from a different point of view from reading this.

Daily deviations explicadas por expertas!

#noticias:iconnoticias: reports, November 26
Estas tres chicas son expertas en el tema de sugerir Daily Deviations, ellas 3 suman cientos de DDs aceptas y publicadas en deviantART.

Entiende de una vez por todas el tema de las Daily Deviations…

How to?

=morbidthegrim:iconmorbidthegrim: reports, November 27
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60 comments   Editorials  Last +fav: =4420

A Guide For Help To Become Good - And Respected

*llama-doll:iconllama-doll: reports, November 25
A guide for help to become good - and respected.

llama doll

Editorials This Week

Inspiration credits is not a shame!

=lady-symphonia:iconlady-symphonia: reports, December 4
copy art inspiration

Project Comment: Around dA Issue 6

#ProjectComment:iconProjectComment: reports, December 6
Project Comment is all about the community, so instead of just sticking to one thing and effectively closing all our walls and doors, we’re issuing a weekly Around dA, Project Comment style.

This news article includes things you can take part of (Groups, Features, Projects and More!), FAQs and Tuts, Guides and Resources. Each category is limited to only five things so that you have time to visit each individually.

Have something to suggest? Note us! :D

Photo-manipulation: A Beginner's Hand Guide

=Emerald-Depths:iconEmerald-Depths: reports, 2d 16h ago
Don't know what photo-manipulation is, or do you want to try it but don't know where to begin?

This article contains frequently asked questions (with answers) involving the process.

Alzheimer's Disease. A Plea at Christmas

`photonig:iconphotonig: reports, December 4
There was a play on; a half hour treat between grim news headlines. This particular play was a monologue about an elderly lady suffering the effects of Alzheimer's Disease......................

Loss of faith...

~DouglassDumas:iconDouglassDumas: reports, 1d 17h ago
DA policies and double standards.

Horror News.

=mzscarecrow1313:iconmzscarecrow1313: reports, 2d 4h ago
Horror News straight from the Harleyquinn and her Babies

The reality of bullying

#ShatterTheStigma:iconShatterTheStigma: reports, December 4
Bullying is often seen as "nothing" people effected by it as being "weak" or "malodramatic", but bullying is a big deal and the aftermath of it can be life changing

Wildlife-Awareness Updates!

~Wildlife-Awareness:iconWildlife-Awareness: reports, 2d 22h ago
Updates on the club ~Wildlife-Awareness - A club dedicated to spread wildlife awareness.

Realms of Fantasy and Myth: Week 25 - Yeti

~ladyarah:iconladyarah: reports, 1d 23h ago
Realms of Fantasy and Myth: Week 25 - Yeti

Thoughts on Club Maintenance

=inacom:iconinacom: reports, December 5
Some thoughts on how to run a club, based on observation and personal experience as club admin.

Editorials


Schism

`ToAPP:iconToAPP: reports, January 23

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smoldering
Fundamental differing
Pure intention juxtaposed
Will set two lovers' souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes
Testing our communication
The light that fueled our fire then
Has a burned a hole between us so
We cannot see to reach an end
Crippling our communication

I know the pieces fit
'Cause I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame
It doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other
Watch the temple topple over
To bring the pieces back together
Rediscover communication

The poetry
That comes from the squaring off between
And the circling is worth it
Finding beauty in the dissonance

There was a time that the pieces fit
But I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smoldering
Strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know
The dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow
And strengthen our communication

Cold silence has
A tendency to
Atrophy any
Sense of compassion
Between supposed brothers
Between supposed lovers

I know the pieces fit


[link]

I added the full eponymous reference to one of my favorite Tool songs because it so effectively captures the essence of the infighting that I’ve been seeing going on here. To be honest, I had a lot of reservations about posting this article because I’m not really sure if people here are ready and willing to hear it for its intended purpose. For me, these lyrics speak to the importance of keeping communication open even when one disagrees with an opposing point of view. Adhering to the adage “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” will continue to atrophy and erode our sense of connection to each other if our silence is bought with lingering resentment and contempt. We need to bring a sense of mutual understanding and compassion back into the discussion if we truly want to grow and work together as a community. We can’t simply swallow back our bad feelings and only focus on the positive, nor can we allow our beliefs and passions to leave no room for “the other”.

This brings me to the heated debate over “bad fractalism”. To be fair, while this discussion came to a head when ~FarDareisMai expressed her concerns in a recent journal entry [link] , the underlying sentiments had been festering in silent resentment for quite some time:


“I have felt like this for a very long time now, but I have always had (and still have) a lot of reservations about voicing it…I am simply sick of only being able to say flattering things.”


As I understand its usage, this term describes a fractal design that was posted to our gallery without an appropriate amount of creative effort having been put into generating it. If one accepts that “bad fractals” exist and that they are growing in both abundance and popularity, it is only natural to blame them for a perceptible erosion of quality within the fractal gallery. It is natural to point the finger, blame the other. Natural - but is it fair?

The fundamental difficulty that one encounters with this definition is in its arbitrary nature. Let’s face it. Each one of us is in some stage of technical or artistic development. Each one of us is driven by our own aesthetic tastes, by our own artistic vision and our own motives. As a consequence, the question of what constitutes an “appropriate amount of effort” can only vary depending on who you ask. Identifying “bad fractalism” as a problem that needs to be fixed cannot possibly lead to any resolution. It will only lead to more confusion and divisiveness. It will cast doubt in the minds of many who realize that they still have a lot to learn:

“I suppose I felt upset by what I perceived as a criticism of my person. I'm not a perfectionist.”

It will alienate individuals who simply came here to dabble:

“I didn't come here to learn things. I came to find something to do, as I was bored stiff at home, and to express myself. I've achieved these two things.”

It will ignite the sanctimonious ire of the presumptuous and arrogant:

“You should really consider why you are here to begin with if it’s (for) "Personal Pleasure".”



Is there a way to address the problem of restoring quality to the fractal gallery without resorting to the rhetoric of “bad art”? I think that there is. To be fair, FDM has already revealed much of the process herself in a subsequent journal posting [link] I won’t re-hash everything that she stated here but do invite the curious reader to visit her posting for details. Despite some brief forays back into the negative rhetoric, she threw down a challenge for members of the community to avail themselves of resources and attitudes that will encourage their growth and development. =one-tough-one summed up the approach succinctly: “Learn...Teach...Comment...Critique...4 Very good things indeed!” I agree.

There is something else that we can do to help shed our resentment toward “bad art”. We can expose the true source of this resentment and work together to dispel its hold on us. You see, if “bad art” exists, it exists everywhere. I’m told, for instance that the photography gallery is replete with cell cam shots of teenager’s sneakers – hmmm…not exactly the height of artistic achievement in this medium :hmm: I’m also told that the photographers aren’t especially bothered by this. They simply carry on with their own business and let the kiddies have their fun. Why does “bad art” bother us so much then?

FDM provides us with a most revealing answer:


What is wrong with a lack of effort please?

This is actually a very good question, so I'll try to explain why a lack of effort bothers me so much.

I think it's because people who make fractals get pegged as doing "easy art" a lot. I can't even tell you the number of times I've heard someone say, "Fractals don't take any artistic talent" or "Fractals are not art at all, just button-pushing" or "The computer does all the work." And I think when people who make fractals treat their own art form as if it's not worthy of respect and learning, then we play right into the hands of those ignorant attitudes.


Even though fractal art has existed since the early 80s it seems that we have still not managed to shed the stigma of being misunderstood by other artists. In fact it was only very recently that the creative significance of parameter files was acknowledged by the dA admin. True to their human nature, the uninformed will also often jump to erroneous conclusions about the things that they don’t understand. Instead of simply saying “I don’t get it” or “This is why I don’t get it”, they will say astoundingly stupid things like “Its just button pushing.” or “The computer does all the work”.

It is equally human to want to respond to such declamations with the knee-jerk attitude of “Oh yeah? I’ll show you! Fractals take lots of effort. Its hard work and so totally worthy of your respect!” But is this really the most constructive approach to take? If the original premise is wrong, why validate it by getting twisted up in knots trying to equate technical effort with artistic merit? No other artists do this. Take [link];prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvoice%2Bof%2Bfire%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den and [link]
Which one do you think required more technical effort to achieve? Now guess which is by far the more prized painting?

Let’s be honest. If the act of generating an image with the push of a single button invalidated a medium as a genuine form of artistic expression, where would the photographers be? Similarly citing the extensive use of computer-driven calculation would exclude pretty much any form of digital art. By devaluing and discouraging the artistic expression of simpler fractal designs are we not ultimately depleting our gallery of a legitimate source of diversity? Isn’t it possible that this collective act of standardization may be contributing to the impoverishment of our gallery? Suddenly it becomes much less clear as to who is really playing into the hands of our ignorant detractors.

If we truly want to be understood better by outsiders, it seems that we should be asking ourselves different questions. Questions like “How can we make our art easier to understand?”. Once again FDM and friends have been gracious enough to help pave the way by suggesting a simple and useful paradigm when evaluating fractals: follow one set of guidelines to evaluate technical merit [link] and another set of guidelines to evaluate the aesthetic merit [link] I think that these guidelines are a great start but could use further refinement. I think that it would be more useful to group only criteria that a fractalist would care about under “technical merit”. This is where a piece could be evaluated based on level of mastery with specific program elements such as render crispness, color separation, uniqueness of design (getting the program to burp, cough, walk, etc…;), number of transformations, xaos, post-work, script seeding etc… This would give us a common reference point to turn to for critiquing each other’s work. “Artistic merit” would conversely contain compositional criteria that outsiders would also value (e.g., rule of thirds, golden ratio, lines, texture, space, contrast…;).

Random Flame Challenge

A good friend of mine quotes the following: “The secret of happiness lies in taking a genuine interest in all the details of daily life, and in elevating them to art”.
I believe that these are good words to live by. For me this equally implies that not everything we do with our medium has to be a shining reflection of our technical mastery of it. There is nothing wrong with conveying a genuinely compelling vision using some well chosen random Apo squiggles (sorry I don’t know if UF has an equivalent). To show that fractal art can stand on its own merit, I’d like to propose the following challenge. Run your random flame generator repeatedly until it coughs up a flame that you find visually appealing. Render it without tweaking a single thing. Then apply any amount of layering or post-work to tease it into a work of art that adheres to the fundamental principles of composition listed here [link] , here [link] and [link] . Note me with your submissions and I will feature them in my journal and a subsequent News Article. I will also invite the participants to visit this subsequent article and use it to constructively critique each others work by using only aesthetic criteria as a measure.

Let’s see if we can elevate some simple every-day elements to art. Lets find the beauty in our dissonance, bring our fractured pieces back together and show the others that fractal art can stand on it’s own merit and doesn’t need to be qualified by anything – least of all their preconceptions. :teamwork:

:peace:

Sasha aka :icontoapp:

Devious Comments

love 1 1 joy 0 0 wow 0 0 mad 0 0 sad 0 0 fear 0 0 neutral 0 0
:iconmarsille:
:clap::clap::clap: Thank you! I am so pleased to finally hear some inteligent words on this subject.. Ever since that article by FDM appeared I have spent hours trying to soothe and calm fractalists.. I don't believe in these so called "bad fractals". While some valid points were made in that article, all it really did was create trouble.. We need to work together to put this community back on track..

I will take that challenge.. There are many such images in my gallery now.. Sometimes a random flame is so beautiful it needs nothing..

As you know, I am not a fan of critique, unless it is done by a qalified professional.. By that, I mean an art teacher or professional critic.. One who has made a study of art, in all it's forms.. That doesn't mean we can't help each other improve our work.. I have also found, in my many years, that kind words encourage people to work harder.. When I find a new fractal artist, I do my best to give them as much information as possible.. I give them links to tutorials, scripts and recomend they spend time in the fractal chat rooms.. These are the kind of things we should be doing instead of constantly finding fault.. I wish I was able to really teach, but by sending a budding artist to the right resources I feel I am doing what I can..

--
My Stock Account ~GrannyStock

Click Here:gallery:
:iconbootsbounty:
Outstanding! I agree completely! Finally someone speaking sense!


One of my own questions...

Is it bad fractal art or is it a beginner's best work?
:icondragonfly113:
Absolutely well said! :clap::clap::clap:
One of the best articles I read until now concerning this "fractal discussion"!

--
Greetings :greetings:
Brigitte

My new club =FracMan
My stock account *Dragonfly113-Stock
:iconninthtaboo:
Great article, well said :clap: :+favlove:

I was very proud of my first ever fractal and posted it to the gallery, I soon realized that my creation was a wispy piece of garbage and so I set out to learn all I could about bettering my work. I'll never be a fractal "god" and don't really want or need to be, but I think I've made some progress since I began. My point is we all started off making crappy, swirly blobs of color, whether some of us will admit it or not, and we should welcome and encourage those who have been bitten by the fractal bug, not ridicule them and their first efforts. We wouldn't run over to a baby who's taking their first steps and kick their feet from under them because they weren't running a triathlon, would we? I think the reason the gallery has so many base efforts is because the popularity of fractaling is going mainstream. Some of these budding artists that the establishment finds so annoying today will, perhaps someday, be the trendsetters if only we help and guide them as we too were helped. It's up to them to do the rest. If they don't, well, perhaps those who are bothered by wisps and blobs to the point of voicing frustration in a non-productive way should stay out of the main gallery and concentrate on their own work and on their own spectacularly amazing page.

Just my :twocents:
:iconkaimaru:
So calling people arrogant does...? What exactly?

--
FAQ 233 : How do I get more page views?

Chat room Moderator of: #UltraFractal
Member of *UltraFractal
:iconbanana-tree:
:) thanks for sharing this Sasha, I knew it would be a great article when i saw the first line :giggle: can't go wrong with Tool.. :D

to be quite honest, I've actually been more on the "perfectionist" side of things, not to sound pretentious, but because I feel like that in most fields of life and it reflects to art too. I understand that no one has to be that way, but I will still have and share my opinions on what people post on this public domain for me to see. I will not complain about "low quality" in an abstract way, but I will post comments on what I see that can be improved. What bothers me the most here is that some people are utterly intolerant of criticism, and will react in extreme ways when they receive one. That doesn't help me appreciate the sincerity behind the thought "everything can be art and good art too", i interpret that as an easy way out, because if a person creates an image and posts it on an art site, I would assume they are there to get feedback about it, or at least put a "criticism discouraged" label on the comment boxes. If they don't like to hear about the lacking parts of the image (objectively speaking, according to the criteria you mention in the article), that makes me reconsider their sincerity about the art and the community. If they cannot tell me why they ignored the technical and artistic aspects I mention (because with a good reason, the rules are there to break) and say why they don't agree with my criticism, I doubt that they had any artistic motivation in creating that piece to start with.

As I said, I see a deep hypocrisy in rooting for the community development and then not letting each member of the community speak their minds out, and that's what disturbs me the most. I don't want to name names here, but I've actually been blocked with no warning for offering constructive criticism to a deviant and I'm still confused about that. The opinions about "low quality art" have been spoken and discussed, and nearly everyone said they wanted to support new artists that came into the medium, but I see no application of that by most people who defended the "random batches", so to say. I don't find it supportive to shoot out "amazing"s and "wonderful"s all over the place, i actually find that quite destructive of artistic endeavors if undeserved. I don't think it's the opinions that "divide" us, it's the intolerance of the other. I thought your article was well put, but I also see that people still see it as another opportunity to take sides, which is sad.

I will try to take part in the random flame challenge, looks like it should be fun. :)

--
bananas, anyone?
:iconcygx1:
:-) Great article, Sasha, and I'd like to add my own contribution to what you have said:

There is no such thing as "bad art". Though I can work days or weeks on my own fractals, this has nothing to do with Art, this is simply my style of work. The value of an artwork has never been related to the complexity or the time and efforts it took to make a piece. Art is emotion.

When do you say someone is a great artist? When you are moved by the pieces he/she makes, whatever the media, the techniques, the respect or circumvention of academic artistic rules, whatever the time and efforts it took to make the piece.

Paul Cézanne, one of my favourite painters, was saying: "A work of art which did not begin in emotion is not art". I think this is the soul of Art, and though he was speaking from the artist's point of view, this can be extended to art appreciators as well. Simply put, you say something is art when this thing gives you emotions.

Emotions are very subjective and linked to the knowledge you have of the specific form of art you are looking at (for instance, if you try to read a fantastic book in Chinese and don't understand Chinese, it will give you no emotions at all!), so everyone can have very different views of the same piece.

To talk about our specific form of art, it's not really a surprise when fractals considered as "bad" by expert fractalists become very popular in and out of the community. People simply do not see the same picture as the expert, their judgement is only based on emotion. And someone's emotion is not better or worse than someone else's emotion!

I have never seen this point discussed in the many "bad art" threads I have read, and I think this was an important thing to mention.

--
=Apophysis *Tubaholics-Anonymous =dATranslators
:iconyewtree:
Thanks for the article and the links. Though I have know about fractals for years this is the first time I have the opportunity to explore them. I tend to try and find what appeals to me and play with it some. I have not tried the post processing and haven't a clue about most of the features of the tools I have tried so far but I will take a stab at that challenge of yours.
 

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