On Saturday 17th October, there was a meeting of twisted minds in the #HorrorMacabrePhoto room on dAmn. A panel of horror photographers, made up of `ladytwiglet, =Ptollemy, =pullingcandy and @Xerces, encouraged the eager audience to poke around inside their braaaaaaaaaains and look for useful information amidst the squishy bits...

If you couldn't make it to the chat, the log is posted here, slightly streamlined to make it easier for you to get your teeth into. Om nom nom.

Panel Q&A

I posted a poll a couple of weeks before the chat event asking people to submit questions and topics relating to horror photography and special effects that they'd like to put to the panel. During the first half of the chat, I posted the submitted questions and the panel answered...



What are your own personal fears?

Spiders [Australia has the deadiest in the world] and drowning.
the night sky, windows, mirrors and freaky children
being trapped under water
Ah, spiders as well - and being confined to a small space.
and to a certain extent video cameras
And having my photo taken
I refuse to have mine taken, I suppose that's a fear too.



What attracted you to creating horror art and what inspires you to keep exploring the genre?

I've always been really interesting in Forensics and horror art was a natural progression for me. As for motivation - an idea pops into my head and won't go away until I shoot it.
So it's a sanity thing
What attracted me was old horror movies, I grew up on them, I love the B grade, badly done shock horror and wanted to try my hand at special effects. I think it's the hands on that keeps me doing it
Who doesn't want to get totally covered in blood and such? I like the challenges i set myself for more horrific stuff and more realistic make up
i've always had a bit of a gruesome side, and i love having fun, horror shoots are all so fun and silly and i always learn a lot from them as well, its a very creative genre
I also like the challenge - I'm sure the other panel members would agree that horror photography can be a damn sight harder than it looks
oh god yes
Absolutely



How do the things you see, hear and experience during your daily life become incorporated into your horror art?

i listen to a lot of brutal death metal, they have some disgusting lyrics, song titles and band names and i find some of them very creative and love to use them to inspire me
Something ordinary and everyday will spark an idea. For example was an idea that came to my one day whilst my husband was in the kitchen cooking. I also spent a lot of time daydreaming "what if?"
Everything I see and hear can be made into something scary - Daily life is just as grotesque as producing something out of materials to show. Also, ladytwiglet is right - Music is a huge inspiration, lyrics can make you think of a lot of things you normally wouldn't.

Just waking up can be turned into a horror shoot

Waking up IS the worst part of the day
Real life just helps me come up with ideas. I mostly come up with them randomly, although a few are from real life fun such as cutting yourself while cooking or grating cheese
I wouldn't say it's the worst part of the day - but *what if* you woke up bound or to an intruder?
Woe betide anyone who wakes me up.
Xerces: Ouch! Awesome image!
RockstarVanity: lol, same here. lucky i dont sleep with a knife.
Xerces: my goodness thats gross!!
Xerces: that makes my toes curl XD
ladytwiglet:

i need someone to make me a mix of cringe and giggle in emote form
Xerces: Criggle?
Xerces:



Do you feel more drawn to atmospheric, psychological horror or full-on blood, gore and violence? Or does your work reflect different points on that spectrum at different times?

I am definitely more drawn to atmospheric and psychological horror, although I do the occasionally blood image. A lot of horror photography shows the horror present [right now] and past [has happened]. I'm very interested in the horror about to happen. [Warning shameless plug ] I'm also very interested in the possbilities of horror images without blood and gore , and recently started :iconbloodlesscoup : [end shameless plug ]
Ptollemy: I'm glad you mentioned !
I'm always up for a shameless plug for the Club
If anyone hasn't seen yet, it's a new group for horror artists who like working in a more atmospheric and chiller-y way, rather than with hardcore gore. Hardgore.
I'd say the blood and gore. I rarely get any chances to do atmospheric work, so i get plenty of practice with make up for the gore and violence aspect of horror
I'm very much into all of those, though I think psychological horror the most, as well as atmospheric, but I like to do more of what's in your mind and can't get out kind of scenes.
lol @ hardgore
i think i tend to go more for the blood and guts but i do sometimes go for the 'less is more' mentality, has always been one of my fave pics but gets barely any attention, probably because the point of the shot isnt really immediately apparent, especially in the thumb but i love the blood and gore much more
ladytwiglet: Very cool!
ladytwiglet: That's creepy as hell! I always knew children were terrifying.
Well, I prefer to do more of a psychological theme, mostly - such as . It has a deeper message then just the blood and gore.
pullingcandy: That one gives me the chills
RockstarVanity:
Horor Photography is a much wider genre than most people think it is; sometimes it's the very personal that creep someone out - very subjective, but that's one of the things I really like about it
Not just monsters are scary, so can be statistics. Humans are much scarier then any under the bed monster you can create, in my opinion
Ptollemy: I remember being overjoyed that a Horror & Macabre gallery was introduced to dA cause I never felt my gory stuff really belonged anywhere else



How do you feel about increasing media censorship and the negative assumptions often made about horror artists?

The increasing media censorship is definitely a worry. I create adult art aimed at adults. I am not forcing anyone to look at it, but making it available if they want to. And yet it seems more and more that a small but loud minority wants to tell us what we can and can't create. I don't like cubism art, so I don't look at it. If someone doesn't like horror photography, don't look at it.
Ptollemy:
i think people need to chill out. Because I use my children in my pictures regularly, I have had some pretty nasty assumptions made about my parenting skills. I don't take it seriously at all but i wish people would realise that horror artists are not all raving mental baby eating lunatics
I don't know what to say about that, because here in Canada, some of our advertising for say, drunk driving, is VERY graphic and disturbing, and post all over town. I don't much care for how if it's mainstream and done by the media it's alright to show something that has blood in it, but if it's artistic we get deemed as crazy. The censorship shouldn't be a two way street, imo. If you don't like what I'm doing, don't look.
Ptollemy: Why do you think more people can't grasp the 'if you don't like it, don't look at it' thing?
I agree with . I use my children regularly, well, my one child. And it's always her idea -
pullingcandy: so there's like a double standard?
ladytwiglet: Your childrens' involvement in your horror art is one of my favourite things about what you create, especially knowing how much fun they have!
veinsrunempty: What do you mean? In the advertisement vs censorship in Canada?
RockstarVanity: exactly, Ethan isnt actually covered in blood, chewing on a hand, he's playing with a toy thats covered in honey!
The negative assumptions made about horror artists are stupid and quite frankly insulting. I am not mentally ill. I am not an evil satanist. I am just someone exploring the darker side of art. Earlier this year I was honoured with a DD in horror photography, but you would not believe the hate mail I received because I used a baby in the photograph. It seems in today's society that extreme porn is okay but horror images aren't. Or maybe it would be more acceptable if I was male. :shakes head:
veinsrunempty: That's a really good question
ladytwiglet: does awesome kid-based horror too. She said the photos were 99% her daughters' ideas!
basically it seems like a double standard in general, the people who condemn it seem to have no problem using it for a "good cause"
Ptollemy: I've received hate mail before for the like. I think if people took a moment of their time, instead of saying things they shouldn't, they'd realize I believe that most horror and dark artists aren't mentally unstable.
RockstarVanity: I think people can't get past their own sensabilities. If I think it's wrong then it must be, end of story
veinsrunempty: I know, it's very negative.
Ptollemy: It's funny how often the sex vs violence thing comes up. I like both
RockstarVanity: Mia comes up with some amazing ideas, some of which i am shocked at lol!
there are some really graphic smoking/drug adverts, which no one questions...
ladytwiglet: My daughter does that too!
ladytwiglet: I was obsessed with horror when I was younger, reading Stephen King books and begging my mum to rent me horror movies
veinsrunempty: ah yes but that's all in the name of education to stop people doing those evil evil things
veinsrunempty: The drunk driving ones here are absolutely disgusting. Nothing I could produce would be as graphic as that, and children see them on the side of a bus stop - at least in my gallery there is some form of moderation, or on my website.
her latest one is her lying dead on the floor, blood everywhere and ethan standing over her with a plastic cleaver we have hahaha!
veinsrunempty: Back when I smoked I used to ask for the cigs that would kill my husband's sperm rather than the ones that would make my skin look old. People in shops do not find that funny.
i think mia is more excited about my zombie wedding than we are!
RockstarVanity: :rofk
ladytwiglet: Zombie wedding = awesome!
rofl
For the the record, I have a child on my fag box now with a face full of smoke. I think sometimes people only think as horror as some kind of resort they use only to grab peoples attention in a negative way.
RockstarVanity: I KNOW!!!
JoBloggs81: That's a really interesting take on the subject
The dont ever tend to loook outside the box, and are always so quick to judge
I find it alarmingly hypocritical, to say the least.
Do as I say not as I do
veinsrunempty: To say the least. I don't have to cover my kids eyes when I take pictures of them, but when we pass the bus stop or the commercial comes on, I would.
feels all warm and squishy with love for all the open-minded intelligent people in this room and wishes the rest of the world was like this
Ofc, the goverment are always free to make ad campaigns
as a writer, I listen to the radio alot
you heard the adverts over here in the UK
children talking about death and smoking and dying
as if its almost nothing



Finally...what make-up and effects tips and advice do you have for artists just starting out in horror photography?

MAKE YOUR OWN - that is my advice. Don't go and pay if you're just experimenting. You'd be shocked at how easy it is to make yourself a vat of blood or some fake skin or create cheap lighting.
I kindly disagree - the fake blood I buy washing off floors easily and even wahed out of a white wedding dress
There are dozens of excellent tutorials on how to do things from just blood to lighting to costumes here on dA.
just look a little bit closer a lot of the horror photos that are some of my faves are so basic in construction you could figure it out if you just looked a bit harder
Ptollemy: What brand do you use? Fake blood that actually washes off stuff is like the holy grail.
Ptollemy: hehe Mine washes out as well, which is why I'll probably never stop using it.
and fake blood is horribly easy to make, and rarely stains if you make it yourself
RockstarVanity: R/X - washing out of clothes in hot water
Let there be light! You need plenty of lights to highlight your work. Don't be afraid to do things on the cheap with making gore with tissue and jams, an don't be afraid to make your own fake blood in large quantities without it looking like someone spilled the pink paint. I find expensive shop-bought blood is never as good as home made stuff. Cheap wound materials and make up can include wax and liquid latex which improve make up no end
Also be aware that fake blood made from food products will attract insects and flies if you are shooting outdoors
Ketchup + Honey
Ptollemy: excuse me, waiter, there is a fly on my corpse
I myself would never use ketchup, it's very hard to make it look realistic, but that's just my opinion.
Lemonade4Jessa: I've never used that combination. Do you have anything in your gallery that shows it in action? New recipes are always welcome!
honey and food colouring
RockstarVanity: No. 8( I was playing with it the other day XD the honey made it look quite realistic.
pullingcandy: Plus I'm too lazy to make my own - would rather be spending my time shooting or sourcing props
plus, it tastes nice!
A base of glycerine with red, blue and the tiniest bit of black food dye is my favourite for consistency
Ptollemy: For instance on the washing out - my daughter's white dress was saturated, and I use a corn syrup and food coloring mixture for my blood, and this washed right out -
I cut myself at work the other day and all I could do was look at the blood and think "what a waste"

If you're in the UK, grab some Asda own-brand red food dye. It costs next to nothing and looks EXACTLY like blood without any mixing of other ingredients
pullingcandy: brilliant image!
RockstarVanity: YES. and some corn flour
RockstarVanity: my exact recipe!
RockstarVanity: Srsly?
Ptollemy: I do that too! I keep meaning to take pictures of injuries just to show people who bitch about fake blood not looking realistic
Ptollemy: I make my own props and shoot as well But I find it takes only seconds to whip up a batch of that. I have some store bought blood to use over halloween here, I'm sure it'll get a test.
same, i had a massive nose bleed the other day, was a waste
Lemonade4Jessa: Yep. It tastes completely foul though.
[17:37:28] - one make
RockstarVanity: Lemonade4Jessa if you use honey it tastes awesome!
Another hint: anything can be a weapon - gardening tools, hardware, spanners etc - let your imagination go nuts
pullingcandy: Love that image
JoBloggs81: Thanks
Ptollemy: I like how your mind works
pullingcandy: do you use light or dark syrup?
RockstarVanity: When my little sister was 4 or 5 she used to say to me "I really like you but I think you're very strange"
and if you're ever looking for a way to sever something with whatever, try find ing a way to do it by cutting things up or making the illusion that you're cutting it. Magicians can do make up and injuries well!
That's true - anything can be a weapon or a prop - is just a household kebab skewer
mmm eye kebab
veinsrunempty: I use white corn syrup or liquid honey
Ptollemy: You have no idea how scary that was - I thought I was going to slip.
if your in the US, go buy some Karo corn syrup, mix it with regular liquid food coloring, about 20 drops of red, 1 or 2 drops of blue, stir with spoon or whatever you want to stir it with. It looks really gory and amazing and realistic (tastes good too) if you let it run out of your mouth or pour it on someone etc. If you want it to stick it to skin and have it stay really well, take ashes (fireplace cigarette etc) and just rub that onto the skin first to give it an ashy gray look,t hen apply the blood, it sticks and looks really good.
I do makeup for me and my friends zombie movie we are doing, and it looks really awesome and that's what I do
If you can't do the big epic shot that you want, start small - pick one aspect of that and focus in on the small details
You can't shoot the three car pile up so start with one corpse cruimped behind the car etc
And basically don't be afraid to go for what you find scarey - shoot for yourself not for anyone else - that's where the best images are found.
If you're doing makeup, you can blend anything into anything - don't be scared to experiment with whatever normal makeup you have - bruising especially is easier with eye shadow then starting off with black theatrical makeup - example -
pullingcandy: Also, it's an excuse to buy MOAR MAKE-UP!
Eyeshadow is also cheaper
It's WAY cheaper - you can get anything at a dollar store

Open Floor

During the second half of the chat, the audience were invited to pick the brains of the panel...



What do you recommend is good to make people look pale and dead - and what do you recommend for blood around eyes? D:

Lemonade4Jessa: well I said before what my blood techniques are for makeup that I do, but id use some cheap stuff, just get some ashes and wipe around the eyes, then add the blood I described on with a Q-tip and itll look great.
Lemonade4Jessa: you can get specialised eye blood that is safe to go into eyes- it can be expensive, but well worth it
You have to be really careful putting anything around the eyes. I tend to use store bought theatrical blood just for this purpose because my first rule of shooting is look after hte model
Lemonade4Jessa: You can get eye blood. It's red eye-drops. Putting anything else around your eyes is not a good idea (take that from someone who did it and had a horrible allergic reaction)
Whenever I have to look pale and dead, I either use that white face powder you can buy at a drugstore, or...baby powder. And blood around the eyes, I would only use something organic or special blood that you can buy that can be put around eyes and mouth.
I have also used ashes, speaking of.
You need to make sure that the white powder is blended properly
Lemonade4Jessa: Go for it (Google Kryolan Eye Blood )



What do you guys think about theatrical contact lenses in horror photography?

Lemonade4Jessa: if you or your model can use them, go for it
Lovelovelove theatrical contact lenses!
i think they kick some serious ass, lol. If you can afford them, it's a good prop to use. They always create an awesome image.
Lemonade4Jessa: my eyes refuse to take them
for contacts
I fortunately don't need them, but I wish I had some
just thought it needed mentioning, the safest way is Photoshop
Sorry I personally think they are overused; I would rather see awesome make-up and great lighting



It may be hard to ask or to give tips, I'm just a writer. I watch a lot of movies, I usually go to Saw movies or old movies for creative scenes. But I have a problem with inspiration. People say music is a good muse. Are there any other good inspirational options out there that I could look into?

TheJackal-XIII: Less of the just a writer!
uses writing as inspiration all the time.
Do you watch a lot of horror movies?
I find reflection on past thoughts
Regardless of the medium you work in, your own fears and nightmares are often the best inspiration
That's where my horror art usually originates
Spiders and darnkess are so cliche.
How about forensic and crime books/movies/documentaries?
Ptollemy: Oh yes, those are the best, because they are real
OMG real life crime!

TheJackal-XIII: i'd say lyrics of metal and rock music, arguments and dreams



I received my first hate mail the other day and it really did a number on me. Not because of the stubject or anything, but it was based on a piece which is nothing compared to my other stuff. It really did piss me off rather a lot that someone would comment to me about a piece that I myself find rather dull, compared to being fine with my other work thats a lot more graphic. How do you deal with negative feedback

Ouch
[link]

hates hate-mail
I've got a lot of creepy comments on that pic of me.
I mean really
hates haters
loves hate-mail, hates haters.
JoBloggs81: Have you responded yet?
I ignored it
but it really did get to me
JoBloggs81: Would it make you feel better to respond?
I don't think its needed for me to respond,
JoBloggs81: What'd they say? I think that's brilliant
they thought it was stupid and silly, almost childlike. tThey said it wasn't art, but just my own sick and twistedness, and asked several times wether I was touched as a child. The idea is to give someone a feeling that dont usually feel, be it horror or fear, or even disgust, but to get a hate letter...
JoBloggs81: Negative feedback is something that I think every artist will get eventually, no matter what genre they are into. Somebody out there always has to say something bad about at least one thing - I just usually thank them for their time and move on, because if the good outweighs the bad, then the bad isn't really there. If that makes sense.
It's very difficult to deal with negative feedback when it's in the form of a personal attack. It hurts, you can't stop that; or you can do is move on. I always remember that someone must have a really sad life if the only way they can make themselves feel better is to put someone else down
Thank them for their detailed explanation about how much I suck, ask them if they would like a critique on a piece of their work, and move along lol
It never ceases to amaze me that people actually believe that all artists who work within the horror genre are actually capable of DOING the things they write, draw or shoot about
so none of you guys really take much notice?
Is how I'd deal with it. I don't like starting drama. If the person won't leave it alone, then perhaps I forward it to somebody who can deal with it better then I can. I don't want to get into trouble over somebody thinking I'm not any good.
JoBloggs81: no. i know i'm not a bad mum no matter what people say because of my pictures, it really amuses me more than anything else
JoBloggs81: It never stops bothering me on some level, but I've learned to roll my eyes and move on. When crap like that happens, I go and immerse myself in some DD suggestions or commenting on horror art, just to remind myself that there are awesome people out there too
i think its hard, if you have put your heart and soul into something, and someone turns around and says they dont like it
PeacefulAnarchy: Exactly. But most people are stupid and their opinions are irrelevant



Any tips for a beginner horror photographer? Like scenes to do or types of people to picture?

imamyrose: i'd check out some cool outdoor scenes or abandoned buildings-those always make for some creepy backgrounds. If you can get any friends to model for you, go for it!
imamyrose: shoot what you are passionate about. Shoot what scares you/creeps you out. Make the images you want to see.
Tips, tips...Shoot whoever will let you shoot them (with a camera of course), because part of beginner is practice - as for scenes, outdoor scenes are always good - like buildings, cemetaries..
imamyrose: Work with subject matter that inspires you and try to create something that captures your own fears, something that you've created with emotion will always be more emotive for others to view
imamyrose: i learnt by looking at other peoples work and being inspired by it, or reading about a new makeup technique i wanted to try out. in fact i STILL do that
Work with what makes you feel comfortable and damn it Rockstar. You typed it faster then I did.
thank you ladytwiglet is there any make up you would recommend?
imamyrose: mud mask, like the one you put on your face in the bath, makes some amazing skin textures, and sometimes the bodies simple little tricks that look awesome on camera



In general, how much do you spend per shoot? I'm interested in what people usually put into a shoot

veinsrunempty: i spend maybe a couple of hours at the very most. i've got timing down to a fine art, as most of the time, i don't have much time to spare. i have an order of service for most shoots that i work to so that i get efficient use of time
veinsrunempty: i'm an older student with 2 kids, as little as possible
veinsrunempty: I buy my supplies in bulk, so per shoot I'd have to say it doesn't cost me very much at all money wise, as for time, it takes me hours to set up and then about 15 minutes to take the pictures I want.



does anyone have any suggestions for LARGE amounts of fake blood?


You can make a ton of blood with that recipe, veinsrunempty
veinsrunempty: check costume shops and places like Spencer's; you can buy huge gallons of fake blood for relatively cheap

Yummy thumbies

During the chat, a collection of thumbs were posted to give the audience even more stuff to drool over. If you're itching to dive into a big messy heap of horror, these'll get your eyes off to a good start. Enjoy...







A big hairy scary thank you to everyone who helped pimp the event, attended the chat session, asked interesting questions, gave awesome answers, shared their work, kept me sane while I lost my dAmn virginity (^PurpelBlur, my saviour) and helped out with the technicals (@Little-Vampire and @Xerces). I enjoyed this so much I'm already planning the next one...